2024 Tulster vs vedder

The Ruger LCP MAX is a compact, lightweight pistol with fixed front and rear sights. It features a grip extension floorplate that is easily added to the pistol. This Ruger model weighs only 10.6 ounces unloaded and has a barrel length of 71.1 mm or 2.8 inches. Each holster listed above is able to be handmade for the Ruger LCP MAX.Tulster currently offers customers two innovative IWB holsters: The Profile and the OATH Both holsters have a lot to offer, so let's review their respective features so you can choose which option is right for you. The Profile holster is our original minimalistic IWB holster. Intended for simplicity of use, the Profile provides easy on/easy off usability and maintains the profile of your ...The Vedder Holsters RapidTuck IWB Hybrid Holster offers both five-star comfort and convenience. Even after nearly 500 online ratings, the Vedder Holsters RapidTuck maintains a 5-star rating from user feedback. It is as comfortable to wear inside-the-waistband (IWB) as any well-built leather holster, and affords a full-firing grip.It's a downside of Alien Gear holsters in general. The concept of the interchangeable shells loses it's usefulness when the backer for them has to be large enough to accommodate mounting the shell and having room for the rest of the hardware. The ones I suggested will all be a smaller/more concealable form factor. 17.Oct 30, 2020 · Vedder, along with others, also will offer you a 30 day test drive of their holsters and if you don't like it, they'll take it back and refund you (return shipping is on your dime). Tulster does the same (they're a smaller outfit but also very good customer service). TULSTER makes great EDC/Concealed carry kyde... #EDC #magcarriers #magazinecarriersSLEEK, ADJUSTABLE, AND VERSITILE!These are the TULSTER ECHO PRO MAG CARRIERS!Vedder vs Tulster: Which one is better? So I have a T1C holster right now, but I'm so skinny that it's kinda obvious when I'm carrying because my pants jut out more than usual. That being said, which holster between Vedder and Tulster is better concealment and comfortability wise? Thanks I'm advance for the help. 3 13 13 comments Add a CommentI have a CYA Supply Co and a Tulster for the same gun and the quality is noticeably better with Tulster. The CYA has a dinky clip and the gun is not firmly holstered, i.e. the gun moves around slightly while in the holster. Both with get the job done, but I’d pay the extra $25 for a Tulster!Tulster currently offers customers two innovative IWB holsters: The Profile and the OATH Both holsters have a lot to offer, so let's review their respective features so you can choose which option is right for you. The Profile holster is our original minimalistic IWB holster. Intended for simplicity of use, the Profile provides easy on/easy off usability and maintains the profile of your ...Mar 13, 2020 · In a word, yes, you do. When you are considering IWB carry, it’s important to remember a number of factors but one of the most important factors is your belt. We know it might seem a bit trivial but in reality, you should think of your gun belt as an integral part of your concealed carry system. Having the right system helps ensure you have a ... Tulster. The OATH (Optic-Ready, Ambidextrous, Tuckable Holster) series is a significant addition to the Tulster IWB holster family. Engineered with a red-dot optic in mind, the OATH accommodates the most common RDS, such as the RMR and SRO, while maintaining an exceptionally comfortable fit and finish. This discreet inside the waistband …The Vedder Claw can easily be attached to most LightTuck model holsters. The claw is designed to keep your gun close to your body for reduced printing and better concealment. All you need to attach the claw to your LightTuck holster is a drill, a small piece of scrap wood, the included template, and your original post and retention spacer.The inherent positive retention “SNAP” ensures the gun is secure when holstered. The Profile holster is formed with .08" thick kydex, and features no unnecessary material, resulting in a low-profile carry experience. Removal of extra material between the muzzle and retention screw adds to a layer of comfort without digging into the body or ...Tulster. The OATH (Optic-Ready, Ambidextrous, Tuckable Holster) series is a significant addition to the Tulster IWB holster family. Engineered with a red-dot optic in mind, the OATH accommodates the most common RDS, such as the RMR and SRO, while maintaining an exceptionally comfortable fit and finish. This discreet inside the waistband …I have one ordered in black carbon Vedder light tuck to be a good contrast color to my Coyote sig p365. I had a police blue carbon fiber one for my m&p 2.0 compact. It worked great! I'll let you know how I like my new Vedder when it helps the mailbox. It's taking longer because of the pandemic. But they are worth the price for sure! The Vedder Holsters RapidTuck IWB Hybrid Holster offers both five-star comfort and convenience. Even after nearly 500 online ratings, the Vedder Holsters RapidTuck maintains a 5-star rating from user …Mar 1, 2021 · Tulster currently offers customers two innovative IWB holsters: The Profile and the OATH Both holsters have a lot to offer, so let's review their respective features so you can choose which option is right for you. The Profile holster is our original minimalistic IWB holster. Intended for simplicity of use, the Profile provides easy on/easy off usability and maintains the profile of your ... The Contour is an innovative, highly concealable, and comfortable outside the waistband CC holster from Tulster. Thanks to the ingenious “molded-in” concealment, low profile design, and minimal material, the Contour is the ultra-discreet OWB solution you’ve been looking for. For those who have trouble with a traditional IWB holster, the ... If one clip leaves the holster a bit 'wiggly' I'll see if adding a second dcc mod 4 clip in the stock location of the vedder looks like a viable option. It may all line up better using the Tulster. You have the entire area above the muzzle to work with for adding a second clip (vs. vedder that has the pre drilled holes).By Jacob Paulsen | March 20, 2017 | 57 We look at all different types of concealed carry holsters. People sometimes swear to have found "the best concealed carry holster ever!" However, as the infamous "drawer of holsters" grows, opinions can sometimes change. We all have the big box of holsters that we've tried.I do not have a comparison with a Vedder....I use a thick Uncle Mikes velcro under belt for daily wear, and the clip holds and fits well looking at the pics of the Vedder, they appear to have more height and cant adjustments... the Tulster is fixed, but fits right for meKydex holster makers have sprung up all over the place. Many, such as the one that made my first FNS-9 holster have vanished, while others have thrived. We the People Holsters is a company that just kind of sprang up in front of me, with a bold branding effort and variety of products. The IWB holster I’m reviewing retails for $41 as of this ...By Jacob Paulsen | March 20, 2017 | 57 We look at all different types of concealed carry holsters. People sometimes swear to have found "the best concealed carry holster ever!" However, as the infamous "drawer of holsters" grows, opinions can sometimes change. We all have the big box of holsters that we've tried.My Vedder Light Tuck (for P365XL) arrived today along with the IWB Mag pouch. All is great. Retention is secure. The P365XL snaps in and out just right. Carries …Thanks! Vedder LightTuck: Pros: Thinner, Adjustable clip, Tuckable clip, Cons: Some clip configurations cause problems with the claw, Maybe less concealable ?, Tier 1 Xyphos: Pros: Seems more concealable, More aggressive claw, Option of coming with an ulticlip (as well as the stock clip) Cons: Bulkier, Less clip adjustment, 10. 19 comments.tulster holster vs bravo concealment for the sig sauer p365. Two great options for a descent price. lets see which holster is worth the money. watch the full...A family-owned company in Mount Dora, Florida, Vedder Holsters individually handcrafts all products with pride in the U.S.A. Mailing Address: Vedder Holsters LLC. 1176 Camp Avenue Mount Dora, FL 32757. Phone: 352.729.6749 Hours: Weekdays 9am - 4pm EST. Physical Address: 1186 Camp Avenue Mount Dora, FL 32757. exit popup SLIM-TUK. $36.99. I would also give the holster great marks for concealability with one caveat. Given the size and shape, I have almost solely carried this in the appendix position. I’ve done so ...4. VEDDER HOLSTERS LIGHTTUCK IWB KYDEX HOLSTER. This Vedder LightTuck IWB Holster is a handcrafted beauty that perfectly fits your gun model. In fact, the fit is so precise that each time you holster the gun, there will be an audible clicking noise which ensures that the firearm is secured in place.539 posts · Joined 2018. #11 · Jul 1, 2020. I've had a few Crossbreed holsters, and they are good quality holsters, but I've come to appreciate hybrid holsters where the kydex pouch is removable/exchangeable. There are now other companies that do this, but I'm a big fan of White Hat Holsters.Sig Sauer P365 Holsters (without Thumb Safety) The Sig Sauer P365 is a striker-fired, semi-automatic pistol with a polymer frame. It features double-stack magazines and a proprietary. This Sig Sauer model weighs approximately 17.8 ounces unloaded and has a barrel length of 78 mm or 3.1 inches. Each holster listed above is able to be handmade ... Jan 9, 2023 · 4. VEDDER HOLSTERS LIGHTTUCK IWB KYDEX HOLSTER. This Vedder LightTuck IWB Holster is a handcrafted beauty that perfectly fits your gun model. In fact, the fit is so precise that each time you holster the gun, there will be an audible clicking noise which ensures that the firearm is secured in place. Apr 9, 2020 · I've been using the Vedder LightTuck for about 3 months in appendix IWB concealed carry, and it seems I can highly recommend it now. The last Vedder holster... Kydex holster makers have sprung up all over the place. Many, such as the one that made my first FNS-9 holster have vanished, while others have thrived. We the People Holsters is a company that just kind of sprang up in front of me, with a bold branding effort and variety of products. The IWB holster I’m reviewing retails for $41 as of this ...It's a downside of Alien Gear holsters in general. The concept of the interchangeable shells loses it's usefulness when the backer for them has to be large enough to accommodate mounting the shell and having room for the rest of the hardware. The ones I suggested will all be a smaller/more concealable form factor. 17.Tulster is a good holster. I love their universal mag carrier. I prefer the belt clip on the Vedder. I’ve tried holsters with the type of clip that’s on a Tulster and it doesn’t work for me. It’s all about what will or will not work …I do not have a comparison with a Vedder....I use a thick Uncle Mikes velcro under belt for daily wear, and the clip holds and fits well looking at the pics of the …I've been using the Vedder LightTuck for about 3 months in appendix IWB concealed carry, and it seems I can highly recommend it now. The last Vedder holster...I know y’all are vedder light tuck shills but if anyone has had both I’d love to hear about them. I’ve not had the oath but I have owned a Tulster IWB before. It was a good holster but I didn’t like it much because it really held onto the gun during the draw. Even loosening the screws- the click was good and the retention was good but ...Tulster makes an excellent lineup of inside the waistband holsters. Their low price, cool color options, and slim design is what really draws us to this holster. ... This provides a barrier between you and the back portion of the slide of your P365. This will make it a lot more comfortable to carry, as well as keeping sweat off the gun, which ...IWB Holsters: Vedder vs Tulster vs Bravo Concealment. I'm looking to graduate from my cheap worn-out fabric holster to something with more retention and durability so I can properly protect my trigger. Just so you guys are aware I do not carry appendix. I much prefer to carry anywhere between 3 - 4 o'clock.Vedder lighttuck vs Tulster Oath - lowest profile I am a narrow-torso'd individual seeking to carry a p365XL AIWB (I don't own it yet, it's just what I'm considering).I've personally handled the vedder and it has a bit higher sweat guard which you might dig. There are tons of options - my only recommendation is to look for ones that are more modular. Adjustable cant, blocked in more spots because ultimately you might find that you like the holster from company A but the clips from company B for instance.Tulster. Key Strengths: Affordable and comfortable. Full Review: Tulster Holster and Echo Mag Carrier Review. Urban Carry: REVO. Key Strengths: Versatile. Full Review: Urban Carry Revo Holster System – The Good and The Bad. Flashbang Bra Holster. The Flashbang Bra Holster is an option for women who can't carry their gun in a traditional method.capnjim01 · #10 · Oct 15, 2020. Glock4life! said: I use the Vedder LightTuck IWB holster and based on the quality, fit and finish they are now my holster of choice. I'm going to get an OWB for Winter carry and based on my research it will be the Vedder LightDraw with the pancake clips instead of the standard clips.Mar 12, 2019 · The JMCK is wider - 3.5 inches - than the Vedder which is 3.25 inches in width. I had to adjust the ride height on the JMCK due to it hitting the inside of my thigh when seated. This was easy to do by simply moving the pull-the-dot loops lower. You will notice that the "claw" on the JM Custom Kydex is a bit more substantial than the one on the ... Vedder, along with others, also will offer you a 30 day test drive of their holsters and if you don't like it, they'll take it back and refund you (return shipping is on your dime). Tulster does the same (they're a smaller outfit but also very good customer service).capnjim01 · #10 · Oct 15, 2020. Glock4life! said: I use the Vedder LightTuck IWB holster and based on the quality, fit and finish they are now my holster of choice. I'm going to get an OWB for Winter carry and based on my research it will be the Vedder LightDraw with the pancake clips instead of the standard clips.64 at Alien Gear. Alien Gear (See Price) Amazon (See Price) OpticsPlanet (See Price) The Alien Gear Cloak Tuck 3.5 is a great IWB holster for the money if you’re not a fan of leather. Alien Gear Cloak Tuck with XD Mod 2 (Old 3.0 Model) The lifetime warranty plus a 30-day no-questions-asked trial period can’t be beaten.Absolutely not. Vedder gets shilled like crazy but they’re mediocre. Aside from the nice metal tuckable clip, everything else about it can be bested or met by a $25 eBay special. The quality is average, the claw attachment is a complete joke and an obvious afterthought. It attaches with one screw and wiggles around.Tulster Profile. Alien Gear Cloak Tuck 3.0. Vedder LightTuck. CrossBreed SuperTuck. Black Arch Protos-M. Dara Slick Side. Tier 1 Concealed Agis. JM Custom Kydex AIWB Wing Claw 2.5. CYA Supply Co. IWB Holster - The CYA Supply Co. Let’s get into some individual IWB holsters and their pros and cons.Tenicor vs Tulster. I've been carrying a P365XL in a Vedder Light Tuck at 3 o'clock for the past four years. I've recently started to transition to AIWB. The Vedder does an ok job, but I've found it fairly bulky and uncomfortable and have grown extremely tired of the lack of quality. (The claw constantly comes loose and moves around.We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.The Sig P365 XL is a micro-compact pistol that measures 4.8” tall, 1.1” wide, and 6.6” long with a 3.7” long barrel, while the compact XMACRO is 5.2” tall, 1.1” wide, and 6.6” long with a 3.1” barrel. The XL weighs slightly less than the XMACRO at 20.7 ounces and 21.5 ounces, respectively. While both the XMACRO and the P365 XL ...I was debating between these 2 holsters so hope this can help someone out.May 27, 2023 · Below we list the best holsters for all the common carry positions, as well as for a variety of budgets. Any of these holsters will made a great addition to your collection and will not just take up space in your junk drawer. 1. Tulster Profile Holster. Save 15% Code: CCS. My Vedder Light Tuck (for P365XL) arrived today along with the IWB Mag pouch. All is great. Retention is secure. The P365XL snaps in and out just right. Carries …Vedder vs Tulster: Which one is better? So I have a T1C holster right now, but I’m so skinny that it’s kinda obvious when I’m carrying because my pants jut out more than usual. That being said, which holster between Vedder and Tulster is better concealment and comfortability wise?Bookmark JUMP TO SECTION It's wild that there used to be an era when leather was the only option for a good holster. Leather was and is still great, but many modern holsters are now made from a polymer material commonly called Kydex. Assorted Concealment Express Holsters Kydex has become the Kleenex of polymer holster-making materials.Tulster. Contour OWB Holster in Left Hand for: Sig Sauer P320 Compact/Carry/X-Series 9/40 As low as $79.99 - $99.99. Left Hand Quick view ... It feels solid in the hand, yet lightweight. Vedder did a nice job contouring the edges and smoothing everything over. There aren’t any sharp corners whatsoever on my Light Tuck. The “mouth” of the holster flares out ever so slightly to aid with reholstering. There’s a full-length sight channel down the top.SKU: TUL_DCC_MB_KIT1_150. UPC: 840147602671. Brands: Tulster. The new metal FOMI style clip, the Monoblock, by Discreet Carry Concepts is a great upgrade to the Profile Series holsters. This 1.5" metal clip has an extremely high clamping force and will not slip off the belt. The clip is made from a 10XX steel alloy purpose-built specifically ... On All Products. Vedder Holsters constantly keeps up with industry trends, product development and manufacturing techniques, so there's always something exciting clicking around here. Check out the newest additions to our ever-expanding range. Vedder Holsters offer the most comfortable and concealable kydex and hybrid gun holsters, made in ...7. DeSantis Die Hard Ankle Rig. Not a carry method we typically recommend, but if you need to ankle carry, our recommendation for the P365 is the DeSantis Die Hard Ankle Rig. DeSantis Die Hard Ankle Rig. It’s a simple ankle holster that consists of a top-grain saddle leather gun pocket attached to a neoprene band.If one clip leaves the holster a bit 'wiggly' I'll see if adding a second dcc mod 4 clip in the stock location of the vedder looks like a viable option. It may all line up better using the Tulster. You have the entire area above the muzzle to work with for adding a second clip (vs. vedder that has the pre drilled holes).Tulster Oath When it comes to carrying little guns, less can often be more, and Tulster Oath offers a minimalist option for concealed carry of small guns. Sometimes a no-frills approach is the best approach.It's a tough comparison. Vedder uses a single wide low profile clip, and has more adjustments for cant. But the tier 1 carries an extra magazine and has two clips to help spread out the weight and add some stability. You can adjust for cant but not a lot since both clips are needed and it affect everything.Tulster News & Insights. View our blog for tips, how-to's and important Tulster information. Comfortable concealed carry holsters that completely disappear into your clothing. Designed for inside the waist band, the Tulster AIWB Profile holster works well for both men and women. Concealed carry has never been easier. Jun 24, 2020 · 539 posts · Joined 2018. #11 · Jul 1, 2020. I've had a few Crossbreed holsters, and they are good quality holsters, but I've come to appreciate hybrid holsters where the kydex pouch is removable/exchangeable. There are now other companies that do this, but I'm a big fan of White Hat Holsters. The Gen4 (top) has some nice additions versus the Gen3 version. With the SIG P320 X-Compact, we used two VELO GEN4 AIWB Holster versions. The first version was tested for seven months; the second version, which included some minor design changes to accommodate P320 pistols with a manual safety, was tested for a month and …Alien Gear Holsters has an overall score of 4.1, based on 67 ratings on Knoji. DESCRIPTION. Vedder Holsters ( vedderholsters.com) is a well-known gun holster brand which competes against brands like CrossBreed Holsters, Walther Arms and Tier 1 Concealed. View all brands. Vedder Holsters has an overall score of 4.0, based on 68 …1192 posts · Joined 2007. #1 · Feb 7, 2022 (Edited) After receiving my new G23 Gen 5 and then looking around for a good IWB Kydex holster I soon realized the choices are slim because the slide is a little thicker than the Gen 3 19/23 so they don't fit. It seems like most of my go to manufacturers have nothing for the 23 Gen 5 so after a ...I have a CYA Supply Co and a Tulster for the same gun and the quality is noticeably better with Tulster. The CYA has a dinky clip and the gun is not firmly holstered, i.e. the gun moves around slightly while in the holster. Both with get the job done, but I’d pay the extra $25 for a Tulster!The OATH holster series is a significant addition to the Tulster product family. Engineered with a red-dot optic in mind, the OATH accommodates the most common of RDS such as the RMR and SRO while maintaining a fit and finish that is exceptionally comfortable. This discreet Inside the Waist Band holster is tuckable allowing your firearm and ...Sep 30, 2017 · Anyone have any experience with one of these? I'm not really a kydex guy and do not own a single kydex holster. I'm needing something that's tuckable for... Mar 1, 2021 · Tulster currently offers customers two innovative IWB holsters: The Profile and the OATH Both holsters have a lot to offer, so let's review their respective features so you can choose which option is right for you. The Profile holster is our original minimalistic IWB holster. Intended for simplicity of use, the Profile provides easy on/easy off usability and maintains the profile of your ... Best AIWB Holsters for Appendix Carry of 2023. We walk you through some of our favorite holsters for concealed carry appendix style. See what brands and models we recommend for AIWB! The …Vedder offered the thicker, seemingly easier clip and excluded the wing - just like the Tulster Profile which was my favorite. The Vedder I looked at was very similar but also accommodated the red dot. Who knows, after a few beers today for Turkey day I will probably buy the damn Vedder.Oct 30, 2020 · Vedder, along with others, also will offer you a 30 day test drive of their holsters and if you don't like it, they'll take it back and refund you (return shipping is on your dime). Tulster does the same (they're a smaller outfit but also very good customer service).

CZ P10-C with a Concealment Express IWB Kydex at 4'o clock --- I can carry all day in comfort --- appendix just doesn't work for me. The bottom line is that you'll stop carrying if you're not comfortable. Check out JM Custom Kydex, Dark Star Gear, Tenicor, Henry Holsters, PHLster, and Keeper's Concealment.. Store number for walmart near me

I have one ordered in black carbon Vedder light tuck to be a good contrast color to my Coyote sig p365. I had a police blue carbon fiber one for my m&p 2.0 compact. It worked great! I'll let you know how I like my new Vedder when it helps the mailbox. It's taking longer because of the pandemic. But they are worth the price for sure! Tulster. The OATH (Optic-Ready, Ambidextrous, Tuckable Holster) series is a significant addition to the Tulster IWB holster family. Engineered with a red-dot optic in mind, the OATH accommodates the most common RDS, such as the RMR and SRO, while maintaining an exceptionally comfortable fit and finish. This discreet inside the waistband holster ...On All Products. Vedder Holsters constantly keeps up with industry trends, product development and manufacturing techniques, so there's always something exciting clicking around here. Check out the newest additions to our ever-expanding range. Vedder Holsters offer the most comfortable and concealable kydex and hybrid gun holsters, made in ...Oct 8, 2021 · Check out the Tulster Contour and use the code heg87 for 15% offhttp://tulster.com?afmc=Heg87Link to my new channelhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5ObmeWVm... Jan 16, 2022 · IWB Hybrid - Vedder or Crossbreed. I recently got a P365X. I picked up a N8 G2 Pro IWB hybrid and love the comfort but the draw from it is a little more challenging than I would like. I believe I have narrowed it down to either a Vedder or a Crossbreed for a new hybrid IWB. Probably either the Vedder rapid tuck or Crosbreed minituck or reckoning. Werkz, Tenicor, Tulster, Black Arch. After a ton of research (and a few too many dollars spent) these are the best quality out there. Vedder is overrated, and so is T1C. T-Rex is not bad, but a little overpriced IMO. Also, don't discredit a good holster because of a bad clip or the wrong belt. Try different clips out, it makes a difference. 29 Apr 2022 ... Low-profile and ultra-thin belt clips, such as the MOD4U clip or the Monoblock from Discreet Carry Concepts do greatly help with this, but there ...Vedders clip is more low profile. Vedder clip system is more secure. If it's one of the Concealment Express holsters with the 1-2 inch monolithic clips it probably won't stay on your belt as effectively as the Vedder. However, if your carrying a Glock. I would recommend a Raven Concealment Eidolon.A family-owned company in Mount Dora, Florida, Vedder Holsters individually handcrafts all products with pride in the U.S.A. Mailing Address: Vedder Holsters LLC. 1176 Camp Avenue Mount Dora, FL 32757. Phone: 352.729.6749 Hours: Weekdays 9am - 4pm EST. Physical Address: 1186 Camp Avenue Mount Dora, FL 32757. exit popup Tulster. Range+ OWB Paddle Holster in Left Hand for: Glock 43/43X/MOS As low as. $69.99 - $79.99. Right Hand NEW. Quick view Out of stock. Tulster. Range+ OWB Paddle Holster in Right Hand for: Glock 43/43X/MOS As low as ...The shell is sturdy, with little to no flex, and the edges of the are extremely smooth, which is an obvious benefit for an object that you'll probably have rubbing against your skin during the day. The holster also features a sweat guard to cover the slide of the gun on the side that's in contact with your body.Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.Oct 5, 2020 · capnjim01 · #10 · Oct 15, 2020. Glock4life! said: I use the Vedder LightTuck IWB holster and based on the quality, fit and finish they are now my holster of choice. I'm going to get an OWB for Winter carry and based on my research it will be the Vedder LightDraw with the pancake clips instead of the standard clips. I recently ordered an Alien Gear Sport Tuck Belly Band to try out with my Vedder LightTuck while wearing gym clothes and scrubs. Haven't received it yet though so can't give an opinion other than it looks like it should serve the purpose. I also came across a YouTube ad the other day for a Comfort Concealment Belt Comfort-Concealment.It looks interesting, …Sep 30, 2017 · Anyone have any experience with one of these? I'm not really a kydex guy and do not own a single kydex holster. I'm needing something that's tuckable for... 27 Jan 2022 ... Comments73. Francisco Santiago. Vedder is an excellent holster and their customer service is Great. I made the same mistake as you when i ....

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